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hey guys ryan here the summer in the

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skies podcast is a labor of love every

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somewhereskies thank you for your

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today on the show contributing writer

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for vice world news an investigative

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[Music]

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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sprague

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[Music]

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hi daniel welcome to somewhere in the

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skies i'm super pumped because i

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actually get to do this show with you

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when we're both canadians

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so

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be able that i'm doing actually on

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ryan's show so i'm just great that it's

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a canadian that's with me uh to discuss

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this so great

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thank you so much for having me yes yes

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go canada

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so you just released an article with

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vice recently talking about how the

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government released 20 years of ufo

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reports and there's over 300 pages of

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strange sightings from pilots soldiers

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and police officers so can you tell me a

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little bit about when and how that was

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released and then we'll talk a little

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bit about the report and what it

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included in it

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yeah so uh these documents came to me

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via two separate uh freedom of

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information requests i received them

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both in january

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and the one of the requests i believe

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was first made in april so it took

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almost nine months to process and the

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the two releases together uh total about

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290 pages

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there's over 500 reports in there and

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they all fall under the

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umbrella of what is called

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communications instructions for

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reporting vital intelligence sightings

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cirvis which is a cold war era threat

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identification

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mechanism and that it's been adopted by

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canadian air traffic controllers in the

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canadian air force

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to document ufos so within this release

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that also has things like balloons and

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satellites and drones uh there are also

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you know

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reports that are genuinely

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weird and unusual from professional

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pilots soldiers police officers these

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are reports going back uh the past 20

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years uh the majority of the reports

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from 2009 to 2021

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most of them haven't been seen publicly

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versions of these have appeared in some

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of the stories i've written about but

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you know there hasn't been at least in

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recent history such a a large volume of

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ufo reports that have come out of the

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canadian government

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yeah because we don't really see

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much about ufos coming out from the

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government they're pretty mum on that so

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why

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now you know at any time is it because

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there's some pressure you know maybe

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from the pentagon or there's you know

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maybe it's because of u.s media and the

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pressure that's happening there and then

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covering it and what's happening

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politically like why do you think the

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government decided to release this now

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then maybe you know a couple years ago

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or even just when june 25th happened

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around the preliminary assessment report

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well i i guess they released it because

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i asked for it

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you know i filed the uh it's called

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access information requests i filed

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those here you know and i didn't just

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say hey um

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transport canada give me all of your ufo

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files um i asked for the specific the

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the service procedures um you know

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generally if you ask for ufo reports

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they'll there's only a few within their

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system that are actually labeled uh ufo

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but most of them as i said fall under

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the umbrella of this communication

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instructions for reporting vital

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intelligence sightings so i essentially

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asked specific departments within

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transport canada which is the canadian

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government's transportation department

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they oversee aviation and things like

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that i asked them

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specific departments within transport

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canada for these reports and um you know

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that that's how they came through

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sometimes these requests can take weeks

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months years i think um this one came in

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as i said in almost about nine months

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and which is pretty par for the course

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um you know i i do think they're it's

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not

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all of the reports that have come their

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way i have found evidence of transport

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canada being notified of other ufo cases

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involving police officers and pilots and

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soldiers but it seems like it's it's

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pretty much most of them

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so right and so you've made a comment in

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recent tweets where it says that you've

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stated sometimes it's worse ask asking

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twice for documents so what can you

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clarify what that means and then kind of

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give us some examples as well

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yeah so if you're getting a document

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through the freedom of information

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system and you feel there's too many

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redactions or they come back and say we

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don't have anything

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you have the option to appeal

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a formal appeal process can take a very

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very long time you know i filed a few

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appeals on things that haven't even come

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through yet

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but in my experience sometimes if you

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ask for the same thing in two different

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ways you're going to get a bit of a

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different response so the document that

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you referred to was a

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air force log from i believe it was 2018

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and it was detailing a case where norad

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radar picked up an unknown radar track

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quickly approaching the north american

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continent so the canadian air force

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responded by scrambling cf-18 fighter

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jets and they went up there and they saw

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nothing and it was later blamed on

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you know a problem with one particular

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radar installation on the coast of

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labrador

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that may or may not be true but what was

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interesting was i asked for that one

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particular document in two different

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ways and the one that came in the second

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version of it that came in just had way

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more details there was way less

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redactions so um i guess that's what i

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meant you know had i gone through the

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appeal process to challenge those

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redactions i probably would have lost

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because i think you know that

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information can really be withheld on

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national security grounds

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but just by asking for it twice i was

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able to get a little

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fuller picture of what happened on that

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strange day

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that's awesome and that's good to know

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for people that are looking for

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documents that you know sometimes you

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have to ask twice and see what you might

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get something you might be surprised

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out of the 300 pages what was the most

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you know unusual or case that stood out

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to you and can you tell us break it down

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with us and tell us a little bit more

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about it

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yeah uh one in particular i

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have it sitting in front of me i was

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expecting a question like this comes

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from

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december 2018

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off the coast of nova scotia

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so this was uh the night of december

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23rd

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and there was a fisherman in the bay of

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fundy

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and a woman at home in

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onshore in nova scotia who both

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separately contacted a search and rescue

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center in halifax to report like a

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bright light that was hovering high up

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way out over the ocean

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so this halifax search and rescue center

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ended up contacting

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canadian norad operations and they

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checked norad radar and lo and behold

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they saw um you know they saw something

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coming up on radar that correlated

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almost exactly to what was a nearly 45

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minute long sighting you know usually

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the reports in these releases are really

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brief

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you know just a couple lines of detail

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but in this case there's multiple pages

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and it ends with a more fulsome report

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uh that explains what they were seeing

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on radar and you know the pdf is

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available with the story anyone can

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download this and have a look for

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themselves this is page 18 if anyone is

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does want to look it up

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and so what they say is this this thing

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suddenly appears and they have no

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explanation i'll quote here for a second

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it says this is an area that has good

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low level radar coverage so there is no

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explanation of why there are only three

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points all at exactly 12

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800 feet with no points leading up to or

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continuing on at any other altitudes so

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basically sudden something suddenly

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appeared and then disappeared uh their

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best guess according to this report was

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uh that the raid the radar was picking

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up weather which does happen but the

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report also notes that it was just a

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partly cloudy very calm night you know

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and this thing's moving at between 38 to

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77 knots which isn't super super fast

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but

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when the winds are nine kilometers an

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hour that doesn't really explain perhaps

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whether um so i just kind of found found

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that one interesting because usually you

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don't see reports that are this long and

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you usually don't see cases where

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a sighting is being corroborated

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by military radar

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there's a few other ones that really

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interested me

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particularly i've been

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writing about canadian ufo cases and

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declassified canadian ufo documents

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almost for a year now and the release

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contained multiple documents on cases

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i've written about that i

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that i found pretty interesting for

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example

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i i published a story on a rcmp officer

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who

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filmed a bright light with his cruiser's

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dash cam

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his his report to air traffic

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controllers is contained in the release

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and confirms that it was a dash cam

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recording which was pretty neat uh

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there's a air traffic controller report

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being relayed about a

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2018

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cargo flight above the northwest

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territories in northern canada they were

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reporting something that was moving

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erratically traveling at speeds that

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they guessed were between mach 4 and 5.

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that report's contained in there and it

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just it just like goes on it's uh wow

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usually like every case i've written

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about so far there's at least some

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mention within this release and

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00:11:01,509 --> 00:10:57,920
particularly the first release the first

284
00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:01,519
104 pages most of those reports as far

285
00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:04,000
as i know haven't seen the light of day

286
00:11:07,829 --> 00:11:04,959
wow

287
00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:07,839
and so why do you think that is

288
00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:10,240
canada has what's called um

289
00:11:14,230 --> 00:11:12,240
the transport canada this is the again

290
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:14,240
the departments that i got these

291
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:16,720
documents from they run an online

292
00:11:22,470 --> 00:11:19,519
aviation incident database which where

293
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:22,480
versions of these reports appear but you

294
00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:24,160
know i was finding these and what i

295
00:11:28,310 --> 00:11:25,760
really wanted to find was the source

296
00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:28,320
data so this is what transport canada

297
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:31,360
edits and publishes publicly you know

298
00:11:35,350 --> 00:11:33,600
the request was meant to capture the

299
00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:35,360
source data that's informing those

300
00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:39,680
reports so that's why you know i think

301
00:11:45,509 --> 00:11:40,720
the

302
00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:45,519
custody of how reports are handled in

303
00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:47,680
canada hadn't really been broken down

304
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,160
before and sort of by by doing that and

305
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:52,880
targeting you know what are called aor

306
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:54,959
aviation occurrence reports from nav

307
00:12:00,550 --> 00:11:57,600
canada which is the private company that

308
00:12:02,870 --> 00:12:00,560
uh operates all civilian air traffic

309
00:12:04,949 --> 00:12:02,880
uh in canada and also by targeting

310
00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:04,959
intelligence reports that were sent from

311
00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:07,200
the military you know it was able to

312
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:09,279
find this this source data that hadn't

313
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:10,959
seen the light of day

314
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:13,600
um you know my i've been working as a

315
00:12:18,069 --> 00:12:16,560
journalist for over a decade now and i

316
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:18,079
like as i mentioned before i've been

317
00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:20,160
involved with you know ufo uap stories

318
00:12:23,590 --> 00:12:21,519
for about a year

319
00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:23,600
and what excites me so much about this

320
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:24,880
topic is

321
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:26,800
you know i i just started out of

322
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:29,760
curiosity filing information requests to

323
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:32,160
see if anything was out there and and i

324
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:34,240
i was getting hits you know

325
00:12:37,829 --> 00:12:35,760
um

326
00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:37,839
you have to we have to ask questions i i

327
00:12:42,069 --> 00:12:39,600
think that's such an important part of

328
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,079
uh you know trying to get more data and

329
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:44,399
get closer to answers and to truth is we

330
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:46,000
really just need to be

331
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,399
asking questions and that involves you

332
00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:50,880
know asking for data um

333
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:53,120
i think there's some people like uh who

334
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:54,880
had been working on this stuff in canada

335
00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:56,399
for a number of years

336
00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:57,440
um

337
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:59,279
but it's i don't know perhaps there's a

338
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,720
shift within you know government

339
00:13:04,470 --> 00:13:02,240
agencies themselves that they're being

340
00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:04,480
more forthcoming with requests

341
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:06,560
i don't i so that's a big roundabout way

342
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:08,639
to sing um you know i'm not sure all why

343
00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:11,120
all of this is coming right now um

344
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:12,560
but you know i guess i'm asking the

345
00:13:16,870 --> 00:13:15,040
right questions uh at the right time

346
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:16,880
yeah i think that's it's great i'm like

347
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:19,040
because we see that canadians are pretty

348
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,639
quiet around this topic and even

349
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,399
canadian media is you're one of the only

350
00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:24,399
canadian journalists that actually

351
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:26,240
speaks about this topic and what's going

352
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:29,040
on in like canadian airspaces

353
00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:31,040
there you also kind of mentioned a

354
00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:32,959
little bit from what what i think is a

355
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:35,360
little bit of a shag harbor connection

356
00:13:39,150 --> 00:13:37,120
and if i'm right shag harbor was if i

357
00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:39,160
had my notes here october 4th

358
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:42,560
1967. so are there any comparisons that

359
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:44,000
we're seeing that's happening in the

360
00:13:47,750 --> 00:13:46,560
atlantic that happened then in chard uh

361
00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:47,760
shay harbor carbon if anyone doesn't

362
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:49,600
know shag harbor was kind of like a

363
00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:51,279
canadian roswell

364
00:13:55,829 --> 00:13:53,279
where a ufo ended up crashing into the

365
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:55,839
water um and that's and it ended up

366
00:13:59,590 --> 00:13:57,839
having like green and yellow foam to it

367
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:59,600
and multiple people saw it and american

368
00:14:02,629 --> 00:14:00,959
and canadian

369
00:14:04,629 --> 00:14:02,639
armies were involved in this and also

370
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:04,639
documenting it as well from what we know

371
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:06,800
so are any of the cases similar and have

372
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:08,320
you had any civilian groups that have

373
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,680
been compared doing comparisons of the

374
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:13,199
the documents that have come out now

375
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,560
that you might know of

376
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:16,399
yeah well the interesting thing was i

377
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:18,399
mentioned that the case that really

378
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:20,000
interested me this one where the

379
00:14:24,150 --> 00:14:22,079
civilian sighting was corroborated with

380
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:24,160
norad radar i mean that that was in the

381
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:26,720
vicinity of shag harbor um

382
00:14:29,189 --> 00:14:27,519
like

383
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:29,199
if you the the coordinates are there in

384
00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:30,800
the documents if you plug it in it's

385
00:14:34,629 --> 00:14:33,760
like just off the coast from shag harbor

386
00:14:36,550 --> 00:14:34,639
so

387
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:36,560
there does seem to be

388
00:14:41,670 --> 00:14:39,760
you know i've read through them all um

389
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:41,680
you know i haven't let's say crunch the

390
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:44,399
data to the extent where um you know

391
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:46,240
i've analyzed it and put every case side

392
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:47,920
by side but there are some sort of

393
00:14:52,629 --> 00:14:50,160
patterns you know there's interestingly

394
00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:52,639
some years where there's more reports

395
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:54,880
than others for example there seems to

396
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:56,000
be a

397
00:15:02,389 --> 00:14:59,360
particular amount of reports from 2016

398
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:02,399
uh 2018 there's so as well there's some

399
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,600
geographical areas where you find more

400
00:15:10,230 --> 00:15:07,680
um there's a lot from the canadian

401
00:15:11,509 --> 00:15:10,240
prairies you know above uh saskatchewan

402
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:11,519
manitoba

403
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:12,800
um but

404
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:14,399
at the same time you know there's

405
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:15,839
reports being

406
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:18,639
uh filed on from by pilots on the west

407
00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:21,680
coast the east coast the north you know

408
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:24,720
across the country um

409
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:26,560
yeah so

410
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:28,639
that particular one though that case

411
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:30,880
where you know they tracked that thing

412
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:33,440
on norad radar i mean when i would punch

413
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:34,800
in the coordinates and i saw how close

414
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:36,880
that was to shag harbor you know oh

415
00:15:39,829 --> 00:15:37,839
that's you know it's certainly

416
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:39,839
interesting who knows

417
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:40,720
they could have seen something

418
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:42,720
completely different obviously obviously

419
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:44,480
we don't know but um

420
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:46,320
it's fun to think about stuff like that

421
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,160
and uh

422
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,560
yeah yeah i know i agree too i'm like

423
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:52,800
seeing the comparisons of it's a massive

424
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:54,800
story and it's one of our most you know

425
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:57,759
notable canadian ufo stories

426
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,600
and it's pretty impactful

427
00:16:03,189 --> 00:16:01,440
so i want to ask you and maybe you might

428
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:03,199
know and maybe not do you know if any

429
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:05,440
political parties are having any

430
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:08,480
conversations around ufos like are the

431
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:10,880
liberals or the conservatives and if so

432
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:13,680
what might what might it be

433
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:14,880
um

434
00:16:39,829 --> 00:16:16,079
i

435
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:39,839
um

436
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:42,000
there's definitely curious individuals i

437
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:43,759
think in both the conservative and the

438
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:45,839
liberal party in canada i i don't know

439
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:49,040
anyone in our ndp party

440
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,839
but yes there's curious individuals but

441
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:53,279
there's no sort of institutional

442
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:55,279
curiosity you know what i mean like

443
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:57,279
there's there's people in positions of

444
00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:59,600
authority and power who have a genuine

445
00:17:05,029 --> 00:17:01,440
interest in this topic and want to learn

446
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:05,039
more but we haven't seen really any

447
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:06,799
institutional

448
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:09,280
level acknowledgement i mean transport

449
00:17:13,270 --> 00:17:11,280
canada for example when i get statements

450
00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:13,280
from them they're very dismissive

451
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:15,839
uh they say all of this is weather you

452
00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:18,079
know they completely disregard the fact

453
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:20,799
that there perhaps are genuine unknowns

454
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:22,160
out there

455
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:25,039
the canadian military is actually

456
00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:27,199
pretty forthcoming in accepting the

457
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:29,600
validity of reports they just say it's

458
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,799
not really

459
00:17:35,669 --> 00:17:32,640
our it's not our business it's not

460
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,679
really uh our mandate to deal with ufos

461
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:37,440
which i actually think is a good thing

462
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:39,919
um you know if the canadian military

463
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:42,640
adopted the stance that all ufo uap

464
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:44,880
reports represent national security

465
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:47,200
threats then all of this material could

466
00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:48,480
be withheld

467
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:52,640
national security grounds right so as

468
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:54,160
soon as the canadian military and the

469
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:56,720
canadian government you know were they

470
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:59,200
to adopt the popular american threat

471
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:00,960
narrative that you know this is

472
00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:03,360
something we have to you know study from

473
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:05,679
a military perspective if canada did

474
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:07,120
that i probably wouldn't be able to

475
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,960
access the amount of data that i do

476
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:11,120
right because they in the access

477
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:12,320
information

478
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:14,880
laws they allow exceptions for material

479
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:18,400
that uh has a national security value

480
00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:19,679
so

481
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:21,600
there are curious individuals and i

482
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:23,520
guess when i speak to people in in

483
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:25,360
positions of power in canada that's sort

484
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:28,880
of the the point i like to reinforce is

485
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:29,760
that

486
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:31,760
our country can be more open and

487
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:33,520
transparent with data without

488
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:36,400
necessarily following the military route

489
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:38,880
that the united states has you know i i

490
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:41,120
personally would like to see

491
00:18:44,870 --> 00:18:43,039
the government be much more transparent

492
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:44,880
with the data that comes in i shouldn't

493
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:47,520
have to i mean in an ideal world to me i

494
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,600
shouldn't have to be filing access

495
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:51,200
information requests to get this stuff

496
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:52,240
it should be

497
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:54,000
available for researchers who are

498
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:56,480
interested and i would like to see it

499
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:59,039
advance as an academic subject not as a

500
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:00,960
defense subject in canada

501
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:02,880
yeah i actually i agree with you and

502
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:04,880
it's great that there is no threat

503
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:07,360
narrative yet moving forward do we know

504
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:09,600
of any like institutions or anything

505
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:11,200
else that's you know even scientists

506
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:12,640
within canada that are looking at it

507
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:14,720
academically because we hear tons of

508
00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:16,720
american scientists and we know that

509
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:18,320
even from nasa and all these other

510
00:19:21,590 --> 00:19:20,720
organizations that are working together

511
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:21,600
you know

512
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:23,760
not say with the ufo well a little bit

513
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:25,919
with the ufo community maybe the galileo

514
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:28,480
project and and other organizations but

515
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:30,640
do you know if canada and our science

516
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:34,080
community is even acknowledging it

517
00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:36,559
again individuals like i do know that

518
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:39,520
for example the scientific coalition for

519
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:43,200
uap studies the scu they have a few

520
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:45,520
canadian academics who are members i

521
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:47,360
believe there's at least

522
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:49,600
one canadian academic on the advisory

523
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:52,880
board for the galileo project um

524
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:53,760
you know

525
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,799
they're

526
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:56,880
i'm not aware of any

527
00:20:01,190 --> 00:20:00,240
institutional academic efforts to

528
00:20:02,350 --> 00:20:01,200
you know

529
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,360
publish

530
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:04,320
peer-reviewed journal

531
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:06,640
articles on stuff like this but there's

532
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:09,200
growing interest it's early days um i

533
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:10,559
think canada

534
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:12,240
overall is a little bit behind the

535
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:14,960
united states when it comes to

536
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:18,559
accepting the veracity and validity of

537
00:20:23,669 --> 00:20:21,919
the subject uh i think our media is a

538
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:23,679
little more conservative than american

539
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,320
media has been um i think our academic

540
00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:28,000
world for example is as well you know

541
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:30,480
it's when i'm working on these stories

542
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:31,280
i

543
00:20:53,190 --> 00:20:51,280
know reams of you know reports and

544
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:53,200
logbook entries and data that comes from

545
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:54,880
the canadian air force which they're

546
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:56,799
supposed to be the expert in uh they

547
00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:58,080
don't want to look at the data but there

548
00:21:02,230 --> 00:20:59,600
are individuals and i think that

549
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:02,240
curiosity is growing you know it's it's

550
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:04,640
work like mine and work like yours you

551
00:21:09,029 --> 00:21:05,840
know that's just

552
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:09,039
helping get you know data and

553
00:21:12,870 --> 00:21:10,880
stories and you know getting the message

554
00:21:14,789 --> 00:21:12,880
out there that hey this is probably

555
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:14,799
something that we need to look into as a

556
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:16,880
society but it's it's early days in

557
00:21:21,270 --> 00:21:18,960
canada you know it's very advanced in

558
00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:21,280
the united states you look at you know

559
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:25,360
the new york times bombshell in 2017

560
00:21:30,549 --> 00:21:28,000
um there hasn't been really an

561
00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:30,559
equivalent in canadian

562
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:32,159
newspapers in the major canadian

563
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:35,039
newspapers you know my work for vice is

564
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:37,440
a small contribution but we see most of

565
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:40,320
the mainstream canadian outlets focusing

566
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:41,280
on

567
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:44,240
american developments when they make cnn

568
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:45,919
but not really

569
00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:47,520
giving any space

570
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:49,840
to discussing what's going on in canada

571
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:51,440
where there are sightings where there

572
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:53,440
are procedures where there is a history

573
00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:56,880
of reports going back 70 years

574
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:59,200
yet you know we seem to be so silent on

575
00:22:01,990 --> 00:21:59,840
it

576
00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:02,000
yeah we are and media

577
00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:03,840
outside of yourself in specific

578
00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:06,080
journalists that follow this beat

579
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:08,320
they're really quiet about it like i

580
00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:10,320
remember you know when i think it was

581
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,400
around june 25th or even when the trans

582
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:14,559
medium one of the trans medium

583
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,320
articles broken and the

584
00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:18,720
the debrief actually confirmed that with

585
00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:21,039
the pentagon that the footage was real

586
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:23,440
it took about a week or two for canadian

587
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,440
media to even pick it up and cover it

588
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:27,200
and talk to other experts in the fields

589
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:29,200
and i was kind of saddened by it because

590
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:31,200
i'm like wow like it's like it's

591
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,760
literally our sister-in-country so it's

592
00:22:37,350 --> 00:22:35,760
i wish that we were a little bit more

593
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:37,360
you know quick when it comes to those

594
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:39,440
conversations do you think that we're

595
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:41,360
going to have some form of like canadian

596
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:43,840
and maybe not in maybe in a couple years

597
00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:46,080
um but like a preliminary assessment

598
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:47,919
assessment report too like the states

599
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,600
that will come out talking about what

600
00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:51,600
canada might be doing moving forward

601
00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:54,080
with technology and and just research

602
00:22:57,909 --> 00:22:55,679
around ufos or do you think they're just

603
00:22:59,909 --> 00:22:57,919
going to keep being mom about the whole

604
00:23:01,669 --> 00:22:59,919
conversation

605
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:01,679
it's so hard to say i i don't think

606
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:03,679
we're going to ever see a situation

607
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:06,000
where canada is investing millions of

608
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:07,679
dollars into research for this the way

609
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:10,240
the united states is i think the united

610
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:13,840
states uh government has treats defense

611
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:16,320
spending like it's candy money you know

612
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:18,080
canada is not like that you know it's

613
00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:20,559
it's there's tight budgets uh especially

614
00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:22,400
with the military you know they don't

615
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:24,400
have unlimited resources

616
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:26,960
and in as long as there's uh you know

617
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:28,720
kids sleeping under bridges and people

618
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:30,880
in canada without clean drinking water i

619
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:32,240
don't think we're gonna see any of our

620
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:35,039
governments uh go out and

621
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,640
say they're going to put public funds

622
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:38,880
into this you know my dream is a

623
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:40,799
situation where

624
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:42,960
we can achieve perhaps more transparency

625
00:23:47,510 --> 00:23:45,440
with data you know the outside of access

626
00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:47,520
to information requests there is one

627
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:49,919
individual in canada who was receiving

628
00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:52,400
data for the past 20 years which is uh

629
00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:54,080
you know he's a very respected uh

630
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:57,039
winnipeg based ufologist chris rakowski

631
00:24:01,190 --> 00:23:59,039
um you know he had worked out a special

632
00:24:03,029 --> 00:24:01,200
relationship with transport canada and

633
00:24:05,909 --> 00:24:03,039
our air force to

634
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:05,919
basically receive these reports very

635
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:08,159
soon after they happen for

636
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:10,880
study you know to study them um

637
00:24:16,149 --> 00:24:13,200
most of those reports he didn't release

638
00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:16,159
publicly but he did use the data in his

639
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:18,799
annual canadian ufo survey which has

640
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:21,039
documented something like over 20 000

641
00:24:24,789 --> 00:24:23,200
ufo cases over the past 30 years it's

642
00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:24,799
like a omnibus

643
00:24:29,669 --> 00:24:27,919
uh annual survey that tries to capture

644
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:29,679
uh you know every ufo setting in the

645
00:24:33,669 --> 00:24:31,840
country and you use those as data points

646
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,679
you know what i would love to see is a

647
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:35,760
situation where you know instead of

648
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:38,400
sending this stuff to one individual

649
00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:40,480
that perhaps you know the information

650
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:43,440
can go through a light redaction process

651
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:45,760
to take out personal information and

652
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:47,440
then it could be you know available to

653
00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:48,480
anyone

654
00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:50,320
unfortunately chris says over the past

655
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:51,039
year

656
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:54,240
the tap has has run dry they without

657
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:56,559
notice they have stopped sending him

658
00:25:01,269 --> 00:24:59,360
reports which is very unfortunate

659
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:01,279
because you know if if he's not getting

660
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:03,760
it it means that nobody's getting it

661
00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:04,799
unless they're

662
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:06,480
actively asking for it through the

663
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:08,640
freedom of information system

664
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:09,520
um

665
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:11,679
i impress that upon you know people in

666
00:25:15,269 --> 00:25:13,840
canadian office that i speak to that i

667
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:15,279
think there just needs to be more

668
00:25:19,750 --> 00:25:17,360
transparency like i said we're not going

669
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:19,760
to invest money like the us

670
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:22,880
but um just allowing you know the data

671
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:25,200
to be there i mean canada has had some

672
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:28,640
proactive disclosures a lot of ufo

673
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:31,039
material from the cold war for example

674
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:33,120
is all available online you know there's

675
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:35,200
great reports in there too there's

676
00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:37,600
reports from canadian military bases

677
00:25:44,149 --> 00:25:42,470
but

678
00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:44,159
yeah to sort of get back to where your

679
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:45,679
question started

680
00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:47,200
um i don't know where it's going in

681
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:49,200
canada all i know is that

682
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:52,000
i'm advocating for more openness uh

683
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:53,279
there's a lot of folks like you who are

684
00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:55,200
doing the same and i think that's all we

685
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:56,640
can do is just

686
00:26:01,510 --> 00:25:58,480
keep pushing forward there are people

687
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:01,520
who are in power who are listening

688
00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:03,919
my gut tells me if our government

689
00:26:09,029 --> 00:26:06,559
changed in canada perhaps we might see

690
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:09,039
some change on this topic

691
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:11,760
but um i don't know i don't know i don't

692
00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:13,360
have the crystal ball

693
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:15,919
i wish i did too because i've you know i

694
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:17,919
think i'm always i'm always waiting i'm

695
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:20,080
like come on let's go you know at larger

696
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:22,320
canadian mainstream media let's go you

697
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:24,000
know government let's just talk more

698
00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:25,360
about it let's have more open

699
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:27,039
discussions

700
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:29,440
i want to go back to chris uh rotowski

701
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:31,440
rakowski i always always say chris's

702
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:34,000
name wrong i go back to chris

703
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:36,000
why do you think they just stopped like

704
00:26:41,110 --> 00:26:38,480
did he tell you why they just stopped

705
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:41,120
sending him information and now where

706
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:43,360
does it go like we have to request for

707
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:44,960
an employer request but i i would

708
00:26:48,789 --> 00:26:46,799
imagine that's it but was there a reason

709
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,799
why they were just like hey where this

710
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:50,559
relationship is done you know he's done

711
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:52,960
such a fabulous job over the years why

712
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:54,559
would they just instantly stop sending

713
00:26:58,149 --> 00:26:56,559
him information

714
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:58,159
i i don't have an answer to that

715
00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:01,200
question um

716
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:02,720
you know i actually i asked the air

717
00:27:06,549 --> 00:27:04,400
forces recently they said that their

718
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:06,559
procedures have not changed

719
00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:09,120
and that you know through the freedom of

720
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:10,960
information system i was able to obtain

721
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:13,520
canadian air force and norad ufo

722
00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:15,600
reporting procedures that list chris as

723
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:17,440
a contact he's still there according to

724
00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:18,720
the air force

725
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:21,039
according to transport canada

726
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:23,840
they do not send him anything

727
00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:26,880
they didn't give me a specific reason i

728
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:28,559
think they told me something like

729
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:31,279
the reports were sent to him as a

730
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:33,440
courtesy for his fiction writing they

731
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:35,200
sent me something really just mean and

732
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:38,720
dismissive like that um

733
00:27:44,470 --> 00:27:41,200
he i asked chris what his thoughts were

734
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:44,480
um you know he thinks that there's

735
00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:46,480
a lot more scrutiny on the subject over

736
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:48,799
the past year um which is contributing

737
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:50,159
to it i think

738
00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:53,120
news uh about the up you know news about

739
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:54,320
the um

740
00:27:58,630 --> 00:27:55,919
about the intelligence report that came

741
00:28:00,789 --> 00:27:58,640
out in june 2021 that started brewing at

742
00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:00,799
the beginning of 2021

743
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:02,480
um

744
00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:04,399
you know i think that plays into it uh

745
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:05,919
chris also thinks you know it's possible

746
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:07,200
that there's just

747
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:09,360
fewer ufo reports

748
00:28:13,669 --> 00:28:11,360
happening over the past year

749
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:13,679
um but you know what it signals to me is

750
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,960
that it's

751
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:16,480
that

752
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:17,760
you know this

753
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,320
topic and this relationship were sort of

754
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,480
brought to light and they decided to

755
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:24,720
just completely clamp down instead of

756
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:26,880
you know owning up to the fact that

757
00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:29,200
uh at transport canada that they've been

758
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:31,919
the recipients of pilot ufo reports for

759
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:33,600
decades i mean

760
00:28:38,789 --> 00:28:36,240
weird lights weird metallic objects

761
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:38,799
moving in strange ways uh pilots with

762
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:41,039
major airlines like westjet air canada

763
00:28:44,710 --> 00:28:43,279
etc have been filing these things for

764
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:44,720
for years

765
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:46,720
and transport canada

766
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:47,840
seems to

767
00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:50,640
be willfully ignorant of that fact and i

768
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:52,399
think they couldn't maintain that

769
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:55,200
position of being disinterested in ufos

770
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:57,120
while publicly acknowledging that they

771
00:29:01,830 --> 00:28:59,520
were sending ufo reports to a researcher

772
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:01,840
who was looking at them i i think those

773
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:03,919
two things were mutually exclusive so

774
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:06,880
they opted on the side of shutting

775
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:09,600
everything down instead of embracing uh

776
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:10,960
openness

777
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:13,520
unfortunately yeah it's unfortunate and

778
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:15,200
i can see that them doing it and people

779
00:29:19,029 --> 00:29:17,039
asking well why are you sending all this

780
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:19,039
confidential information

781
00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:21,120
just to one person in canada that's

782
00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:23,039
documenting everything like i remember

783
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:24,640
when i first came across chris i was

784
00:29:30,149 --> 00:29:27,840
like wow like what information and you

785
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:30,159
know you have like there is some power

786
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:32,320
in that in its own by knowing what's

787
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:34,159
going on within the ufo community across

788
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:37,120
our entire nation and it's one person so

789
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:39,200
when i found out i was really shocked so

790
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:40,799
i could see that maybe they would stop

791
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:43,200
that um because yeah they feel that

792
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:45,120
giving that information just to chris

793
00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:47,039
should maybe they should be collecting

794
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:49,039
it and storing it somewhere else but you

795
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:50,559
know he's done a fabulous job and he

796
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:53,039
should be consistently keep doing it or

797
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:55,279
involve him into a larger organization

798
00:29:59,190 --> 00:29:57,520
you know they have the ufo office now

799
00:30:01,110 --> 00:29:59,200
are we even going to maybe even see

800
00:30:02,549 --> 00:30:01,120
something like that maybe one day you

801
00:30:04,630 --> 00:30:02,559
know in our own canadian office that

802
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:04,640
since chris isn't that person maybe

803
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:06,720
we're going to have um you know a

804
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:08,799
section within the canadian government

805
00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:11,440
that will be you know speaking to ufos

806
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:13,600
have you heard anything of that as well

807
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:16,880
i i i hope so but i i'm not optimistic i

808
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:19,520
i've heard nothing of the sort um

809
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:23,120
and unfortunately you know

810
00:30:27,990 --> 00:30:26,240
i i i think the sad reality too is that

811
00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:28,000
um you know with an organization like

812
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:30,240
transport canada you know they don't

813
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:32,080
have to retain this data either right

814
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:34,399
like they they can keep reports on files

815
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:36,320
they can have a policy for five years

816
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:37,679
and then delete actually they told me

817
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:39,600
their policy is ten years but we were

818
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:40,960
able to find some reports that were a

819
00:30:45,669 --> 00:30:42,960
bit older in this uh

820
00:30:48,389 --> 00:30:45,679
in this in this request that i most

821
00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:48,399
recently wrote about but um you know so

822
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:50,320
but the reality is if you want the

823
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:53,039
original reports particularly those from

824
00:30:59,909 --> 00:30:57,039
about 2000 to 2008 2009 you have to go

825
00:31:01,990 --> 00:30:59,919
to chris um because transport canada

826
00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:02,000
hasn't retained that and

827
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:03,679
he would have been the recipient of data

828
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:06,399
in that period luckily this accessed

829
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:08,159
information request was able to capture

830
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:11,519
data you know up until 2021 so over the

831
00:31:16,149 --> 00:31:13,600
past 10 years that they retained as well

832
00:31:16,830 --> 00:31:16,159
as some other ones going back to 2000

833
00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:16,840
but

834
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:18,880
um yeah

835
00:31:22,870 --> 00:31:20,159
it's

836
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:22,880
fortunately for uh ufo researchers chris

837
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:25,120
is uh in the process of donating all of

838
00:31:29,990 --> 00:31:27,840
his files to the university of manitoba

839
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:30,000
so that will become you know available

840
00:31:34,149 --> 00:31:32,080
but what their timelines are you know

841
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:34,159
are they gonna digitize it i don't know

842
00:31:39,269 --> 00:31:35,519
i i don't think we're gonna have the

843
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:39,279
official canadian ufo office um

844
00:31:44,389 --> 00:31:40,960
you know we're gonna have

845
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:44,399
hopefully chris's um you know chris's

846
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:46,240
manuscripts when they're available at

847
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:47,840
the university will be an important

848
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,080
archive but you know something needs to

849
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:52,080
be done to capture this more you know

850
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:53,519
all the recent data that's coming

851
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:55,440
through because he's been cut off

852
00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:01,830
do you like stories of the strange the

853
00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:04,000
weird and the unexplained then we want

854
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:06,960
you to check out jim harold's campfire

855
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:09,600
the concept is pretty simple jim talks

856
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:12,399
to regular people about strange stuff

857
00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:14,480
that happens to them and yes that

858
00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:18,159
includes ufos along with cryptids ghosts

859
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:20,720
and head scratchers he doesn't

860
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:23,840
exaggerate or play a lot of spooky music

861
00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:26,000
kinda like i'm doing right now the

862
00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:28,960
stories speak for themselves ones like a

863
00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:32,080
ghost story involving serial killer ted

864
00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:34,880
bundy or the young man who encountered

865
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:38,080
an eight-legged demon then there's the

866
00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:40,480
story of an alien abduction by what

867
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:43,279
could be considered a reptilian now not

868
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:46,240
all the stories are horrifying some are

869
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:48,480
actually pretty heartwarming like a

870
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:51,039
visit from a past loved one or a

871
00:32:56,230 --> 00:32:53,360
peaceful near-death experience

872
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:56,240
regardless these are true and

873
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:59,200
fascinating stories told by ordinary

874
00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:01,200
people who've had extraordinary

875
00:33:05,509 --> 00:33:02,880
experiences

876
00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:05,519
tune in to jim herald's campfire on

877
00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:09,039
apple podcasts spotify or wherever you

878
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:11,440
listen to somewhere in the skies and

879
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:12,640
remember

880
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:18,310
do you have the average person you know

881
00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:20,000
because and i get this too where you

882
00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:21,919
know you become the ufo person in your

883
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:23,279
community or your friends where they're

884
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,880
asking you questions

885
00:33:27,990 --> 00:33:26,480
now do you get that do you just have

886
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:28,000
because you have a large voice in the

887
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:29,840
canadian journalistic side of things

888
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:32,000
with ufos do you have a lot of canadians

889
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:33,679
coming up to you and asking questions

890
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:35,600
and going hey you know why don't we have

891
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:37,760
a ufo office or what's going on you know

892
00:33:39,990 --> 00:33:38,480
like

893
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:40,000
is there more curiosity that you're

894
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:41,039
seeing

895
00:33:46,630 --> 00:33:44,159
oh absolutely um you know with my my

896
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:46,640
friends my family my colleagues i think

897
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:48,480
when i first got interested interested

898
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:50,559
in this you it was funny you mentioned

899
00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:53,440
when the pentagon confirmed that the

900
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:55,039
you know the new york times videos were

901
00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:56,559
the real deal i think that was what

902
00:34:01,509 --> 00:33:58,480
april 2020

903
00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:01,519
yeah you had 2017 it was the

904
00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:03,519
new york times release but yeah when the

905
00:34:08,790 --> 00:34:05,600
pentagon came through and said yeah yeah

906
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:08,800
that's the real deal it was sort of like

907
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:10,879
early to in the pandemic and i remember

908
00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:12,320
when that news came through that's what

909
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:14,560
actually set me off on my journey

910
00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:15,679
to uh

911
00:34:20,310 --> 00:34:17,679
find you know material that that's

912
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,320
really what inspired me i spent a year

913
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:22,480
uh you know reading everything i could

914
00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:24,720
watching everything i could and when i

915
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:26,720
first got into it i think a lot of

916
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,800
friends and family members uh thought

917
00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:30,480
i'd gone off the deep end from being

918
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:33,200
locked up at home you know the early

919
00:34:36,069 --> 00:34:34,800
days of the pandemic

920
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:36,079
but uh

921
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:39,119
when the new data started coming in when

922
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:41,520
i started being able to you know hold

923
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:44,480
reports in my hands and say hey this was

924
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:47,040
faxed by the canadian air force to

925
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:50,000
transportation authorities after a pilot

926
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:51,760
said they were followed by a bright

927
00:34:53,909 --> 00:34:52,639
light

928
00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:53,919
uh you know

929
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:55,919
people's eyes i think started opening up

930
00:34:59,190 --> 00:34:56,800
and

931
00:35:00,310 --> 00:34:59,200
now um

932
00:35:01,670 --> 00:35:00,320
a lot of friends and family i think

933
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:01,680
they're just they might be a little sick

934
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:03,200
of hearing me talk about it so it's good

935
00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:05,440
i can do a podcast and talk to you and

936
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:07,520
yeah my head off

937
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:11,280
but yeah the curiosity is there i think

938
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:14,160
uh individuals that i meet

939
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:16,640
everyone is i feel like we're we're on

940
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:19,040
the cusp you know we're it feels like

941
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:20,720
we're on a cusp of a kind of paradigm

942
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:23,599
shift where the question is is shifting

943
00:35:27,430 --> 00:35:26,079
from are ufos real which i still get

944
00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:27,440
asked sometimes

945
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:29,920
to what are they you know and and what

946
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:32,000
are they is the real question because

947
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:34,480
it's undeniable fact that

948
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:36,160
you know people who have a pretty good

949
00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:38,480
idea of what should be in the sky see

950
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:41,839
things that they can't identify so you

951
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:45,280
know just by the nature of the term ufo

952
00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:46,560
uap

953
00:35:50,310 --> 00:35:48,800
it exists right so

954
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:50,320
what are they and i feel like we're

955
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:52,160
moving in that direction at least in the

956
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:54,560
conversations i'm having with people uh

957
00:35:59,670 --> 00:35:57,680
especially over the past year the uh

958
00:36:01,109 --> 00:35:59,680
you know you can tell on somebody's face

959
00:36:02,950 --> 00:36:01,119
when they think you're

960
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:02,960
weird or you know spend too much time

961
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:06,400
alone or something right but uh i i'm

962
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:08,960
seeing in people a growing openness and

963
00:36:13,829 --> 00:36:12,079
a growing acceptance of the fact that

964
00:36:16,790 --> 00:36:13,839
you know there's some there's something

965
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,800
to it you know what it is i mean

966
00:36:20,630 --> 00:36:18,480
that that's that's a great question we'd

967
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:20,640
all like the answer for right but i i

968
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:22,320
think what it is is probably a lot of

969
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:24,720
different things you know and

970
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:26,800
uh but at least at least we're seeing

971
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:28,800
society become more receptive and open

972
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:29,920
to that

973
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:31,520
yeah i agree and i think that it's

974
00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:32,800
really great that we're able to have

975
00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:34,480
this these open conversations now with

976
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:37,520
less stigma you know even in canada and

977
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:39,119
i should ask you that too or you know

978
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:40,800
what kind of like are you you said that

979
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,720
some people are still rolling their eyes

980
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:44,560
you know who generally are those people

981
00:36:47,990 --> 00:36:46,000
are they the ones that just don't know

982
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:48,000
anything about ufos or just still think

983
00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:49,680
that this is just like some

984
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:51,920
massively fringe topic that doesn't

985
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:54,640
actually exist and it's not real are you

986
00:36:59,430 --> 00:36:56,560
seeing that more in canada like the

987
00:37:01,510 --> 00:36:59,440
ignorance around it um or is that kind

988
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:01,520
of subsiding

989
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:02,480
i think

990
00:37:06,550 --> 00:37:04,320
anyone who's

991
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:06,560
has a real interest in this topic is

992
00:37:09,109 --> 00:37:08,079
going to encounter that level of

993
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:09,119
ignorance

994
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:13,040
i think it's just people are uninformed

995
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:15,440
you know you can't have a proper opinion

996
00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:16,880
on something if you're not informed

997
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,560
about it that's true and then you know

998
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:20,640
and if people are inherently skeptical

999
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:22,400
and they say well

1000
00:37:27,030 --> 00:37:24,240
you know these reports it's all probably

1001
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:27,040
secret u.s military tech i mean for me

1002
00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:28,720
as a journalist that's a significant

1003
00:37:33,349 --> 00:37:31,200
story in and of itself if the u.s

1004
00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:33,359
military has made some sort of

1005
00:37:38,550 --> 00:37:36,480
major advancement in propulsion and

1006
00:37:40,470 --> 00:37:38,560
they've harnessed some kind of new

1007
00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:40,480
energy source that could make that

1008
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:43,040
happen that has implications for all of

1009
00:37:47,349 --> 00:37:44,640
humanity right

1010
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:47,359
so even if it is all

1011
00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:50,240
you know secret tech from you know china

1012
00:37:55,349 --> 00:37:53,119
or america or whatever i i i think it's

1013
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:55,359
still significant and there's still huge

1014
00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:58,720
implications for humanity you know

1015
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:01,440
because it stands to that it's it's the

1016
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:03,440
evidence points to the fact that people

1017
00:38:08,310 --> 00:38:05,119
are seeing things that are behaving in

1018
00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:08,320
ways that don't operate within you know

1019
00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:10,880
physics as we understand it so

1020
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:13,119
uh if if it's human made it means that

1021
00:38:18,069 --> 00:38:15,440
you know some government or agency or

1022
00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:18,079
company is hiding something that could

1023
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:20,400
change humanity for the better so i mean

1024
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:22,160
that's how i counter those kinds of

1025
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:23,839
arguments um

1026
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:26,079
i think no matter what if

1027
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:28,079
you know the data shows that things are

1028
00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:30,400
behaving in weird ways on the skies of

1029
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:34,000
earth well um no matter what it is human

1030
00:38:38,630 --> 00:38:36,960
or something entirely different uh the

1031
00:38:39,829 --> 00:38:38,640
implications are always are still

1032
00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:39,839
profound

1033
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:41,040
yeah they are

1034
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:42,560
extremely profound

1035
00:38:46,150 --> 00:38:44,640
now i just want to ask personally um

1036
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:46,160
what do you think's going on like what

1037
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:48,079
theory or what narrative do you kind of

1038
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:49,680
follow the most you know it's the e.t

1039
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:51,760
narrative is it the um the

1040
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:53,839
interdimensional narrative is it the

1041
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:55,839
foreign adversary narrative which the

1042
00:38:59,109 --> 00:38:57,839
states have said that it isn't from what

1043
00:39:02,150 --> 00:38:59,119
they know of

1044
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:02,160
but what do you personally think it is

1045
00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:04,160
i i think a million people are seeing a

1046
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:07,520
million different things i it's i

1047
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:10,320
i'm so wary of anyone that has um

1048
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:13,119
an absolute truth to share

1049
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:15,200
i don't know you know i i think a lot of

1050
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:18,320
those theories are interesting i i like

1051
00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:21,119
i read material that goes into the

1052
00:39:24,790 --> 00:39:23,599
theoretical realm uh but it's not

1053
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:24,800
something that

1054
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:27,680
i really engage in precisely because i

1055
00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:31,200
think if i you know as soon as i start

1056
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:33,200
writing about or discussing

1057
00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:34,160
you know

1058
00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:36,160
these types of theories

1059
00:39:40,310 --> 00:39:37,680
so many of those theories are so

1060
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:40,320
divorced from the data that's in front

1061
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:43,440
of us and it's just it's wonderful

1062
00:39:49,589 --> 00:39:46,960
speculation and you know i will lose my

1063
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:49,599
journalistic voice and my ability to

1064
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:52,160
appear in you know mainstream outlets

1065
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:54,560
you know if i delve into that realm and

1066
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:55,920
i don't mean that to sound like a

1067
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:58,079
cop-out i i think there's some really

1068
00:40:02,550 --> 00:39:59,599
compelling evidence

1069
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:02,560
that something genuinely unusual has

1070
00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:03,760
been happening

1071
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:05,359
um you know

1072
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:07,599
in one of my earlier stories i i wrote

1073
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:11,680
about basically the seven decades of ufo

1074
00:40:15,589 --> 00:40:13,520
reports that have been registered by the

1075
00:40:17,589 --> 00:40:15,599
canadian military

1076
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:17,599
at one particular base

1077
00:40:23,190 --> 00:40:20,400
uh cfb north bay in ontario which is an

1078
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:23,200
important air force norad base

1079
00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:26,880
i was able to find reports from 2007

1080
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:28,000
as well as

1081
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:31,680
from 1952 so 55 years apart

1082
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:33,440
and the earlier both of them had

1083
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:35,680
multiple witnesses but the earlier one

1084
00:40:40,950 --> 00:40:38,480
was was genuinely the more unusual one

1085
00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:40,960
because the thing it was observed by i

1086
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:42,319
believe if i could recall correctly was

1087
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:44,400
a pair of air force officers and they

1088
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:45,760
saw something

1089
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:48,160
making turns and going faster than any

1090
00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:50,240
air you know making sharp turns going

1091
00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:52,240
faster than any aircraft they'd known

1092
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:55,520
and this is in the 1950s you know

1093
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:56,880
for me

1094
00:41:02,230 --> 00:41:00,000
when i see reports of that nature of you

1095
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:02,240
know exotic movements

1096
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:06,960
going back to the dawn of the cold war

1097
00:41:10,230 --> 00:41:08,560
it makes me

1098
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:10,240
feel like something

1099
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:12,560
a little more unusual has been happening

1100
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:13,760
you know something that's a little

1101
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:16,240
outside of the realm of the ordinary

1102
00:41:19,790 --> 00:41:18,079
whether you know you brought up the et

1103
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:19,800
hypothesis

1104
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:22,319
interdimensional time travel i don't

1105
00:41:27,430 --> 00:41:24,960
know i don't have that answer i wish i

1106
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:27,440
did i i wish you know i would love to

1107
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:29,760
have a conversation with a future human

1108
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:31,599
or an et

1109
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:33,680
you know i probably wouldn't go in the

1110
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:34,880
ship because you shouldn't go into

1111
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,200
strangers cars but

1112
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:39,599
i i but you know i don't know i i wish i

1113
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:42,480
did i i love entertaining those theories

1114
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:45,200
but my work just you know sticks to the

1115
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:49,760
data here is a westjet air canada delta

1116
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:52,560
pilot here is their report here's what

1117
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:55,040
norad had to say about it you know

1118
00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:56,240
and that's that

1119
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:57,200
that's

1120
00:42:02,470 --> 00:42:00,560
we do have to stick with facts you know

1121
00:42:04,470 --> 00:42:02,480
we can't speculate on you know

1122
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:04,480
everything and say it's a fact because

1123
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:07,520
it's not um speculation is fun yeah like

1124
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:09,200
yeah but there are but opinions aren't

1125
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:11,040
facts though too though that's the you

1126
00:42:14,710 --> 00:42:12,720
know it's thing we totally agree we can

1127
00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:14,720
speculate but you know when people start

1128
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:16,640
saying fully their opinions and then

1129
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:18,160
they're like that's definitely what it

1130
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:20,000
is and you're like no it's you know we

1131
00:42:23,589 --> 00:42:21,680
need more evidence to prove that and and

1132
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:23,599
thankfully the science community is is

1133
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:25,920
going down that direction in that road

1134
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:27,200
and then when you hear about things that

1135
00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:30,720
happen like shag harbor you know in

1136
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,760
rural zimbabwe you know like yeah there

1137
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:35,280
there is some

1138
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:37,280
there are some cases

1139
00:42:41,109 --> 00:42:40,240
that are just so mind-bending

1140
00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:41,119
you know

1141
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:43,040
you have to allow yourself to have

1142
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:45,599
openness the same way i guess i'm wary

1143
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:48,160
of anyone says everything is e.t i'm

1144
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:49,839
also wary of anybody who says none of

1145
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:53,040
it's e.t you know what i mean that's

1146
00:42:58,950 --> 00:42:54,000
neither

1147
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:58,960
are good because they're both relatively

1148
00:43:01,750 --> 00:43:00,000
closed

1149
00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:01,760
um i i think we're dealing with

1150
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:05,280
something that's a little unusual and uh

1151
00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:06,880
and the answer is probably going to

1152
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:09,280
surprise us all you know

1153
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:12,400
who knows and i hope we get there

1154
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:14,720
i hope so too and i hope on the canadian

1155
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:15,920
side we

1156
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:16,880
we

1157
00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:19,760
pick it up a little a little uh and i

1158
00:43:23,589 --> 00:43:20,960
appreciate all the work that you're

1159
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:23,599
doing in the reporting side uh i want to

1160
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:25,280
go back just a little bit to the to the

1161
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:27,599
article where you said that um

1162
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:29,599
and i would like you to if you can break

1163
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:31,920
down the cold war um era threat

1164
00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:34,160
reporting mechanism that they're still

1165
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:35,680
using so

1166
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:38,160
are they still using that and then um

1167
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:40,160
and and will it change over time and

1168
00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:42,880
what is a cold you know the cold sorry

1169
00:43:47,990 --> 00:43:45,200
the the cold war era threat mechanism

1170
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:48,000
what is that okay uh i'm about to nerd

1171
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:50,720
out on some go for it force procedural

1172
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:51,599
stuff

1173
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:53,119
go for it i think i mentioned the name

1174
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:54,560
of it earlier it's called

1175
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:56,800
they're called service reports

1176
00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:58,400
communications

1177
00:44:02,710 --> 00:44:00,640
instructions for reporting vital

1178
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:02,720
intelligence sightings

1179
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:04,800
cirvis

1180
00:44:09,589 --> 00:44:08,400
this was initially this was a reporting

1181
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:09,599
mechanism

1182
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:12,400
that was developed in the dawn of the

1183
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:15,760
cold war to detect threats approaching

1184
00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:17,200
north america

1185
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:19,760
it was initially developed by the u.s

1186
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:21,040
air force

1187
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:23,280
and if my memory serves me correct

1188
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:26,640
correct it was adopted by canada as well

1189
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:29,520
in the early 1950s

1190
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:31,839
and in the those procedures you know

1191
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:34,560
they've changed over the years but at

1192
00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:37,119
least on the canadian side the documents

1193
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:39,280
maintain the same sort of descriptions

1194
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:41,280
it says what they're for and it always

1195
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:42,880
says you know these reports are for

1196
00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:45,359
unidentified flying objects you know

1197
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:48,800
foreign warships submarines

1198
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:51,119
military parties and remote arctic

1199
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:53,839
locations and it has a list and like in

1200
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:56,000
the current canadian procedures

1201
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,480
unidentified flying objects is at the

1202
00:45:03,510 --> 00:45:00,160
top of that list

1203
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:03,520
so the current procedures are um are

1204
00:45:10,790 --> 00:45:06,720
written by the company nav canada

1205
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:10,800
nav canada is a private aviation company

1206
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:14,079
that oversees and operates all civilian

1207
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:16,240
air traffic control in canada

1208
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:18,880
in the most other countries um there's

1209
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:20,560
usually a government agency that does

1210
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:23,520
this work for example in the u.s the faa

1211
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:25,119
has this responsibility but for some

1212
00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:26,800
reason in canada we have a private

1213
00:45:30,829 --> 00:45:28,240
company that does it

1214
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:30,839
so in the they have a huge

1215
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:33,680
manual that they produce that basically

1216
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:36,000
says all the different things you should

1217
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:38,319
do in any kind of situation that comes

1218
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:39,119
up

1219
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:40,319
and they

1220
00:45:43,829 --> 00:45:42,240
included in that manual which is on

1221
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:43,839
their website today

1222
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:46,480
there is these service procedures the

1223
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:47,599
cert so

1224
00:45:50,710 --> 00:45:49,040
based on that you know they run air

1225
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:50,720
traffic control so if a pilot sees

1226
00:45:55,510 --> 00:45:53,520
something unusual in canadian skies

1227
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:55,520
their first point of contact is going to

1228
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:57,520
be one of these nav canada air traffic

1229
00:46:02,150 --> 00:45:59,760
controllers and by their manual they

1230
00:46:04,710 --> 00:46:02,160
have to fill out a report and notify the

1231
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:04,720
air force to notify transport canada the

1232
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:06,640
canadian air force meanwhile has its own

1233
00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:09,520
procedures of this kind and their

1234
00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:11,760
procedures show uh

1235
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:13,920
that they need to notify transport

1236
00:46:19,349 --> 00:46:16,800
canada as well um there's notifications

1237
00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:19,359
that do go to uh the air traffic

1238
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:22,079
controllers and they provide data about

1239
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:24,800
cases to norad headquarters in in

1240
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:26,000
colorado

1241
00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:29,040
um and these sorts of reporting

1242
00:46:33,109 --> 00:46:31,119
mechanisms i believe were also used by

1243
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:33,119
the u.s air force

1244
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:35,040
up until about

1245
00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:36,880
would have been 15 20 years ago i

1246
00:46:40,390 --> 00:46:38,400
remember uh

1247
00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:40,400
john greenwald from the black vault had

1248
00:46:44,950 --> 00:46:43,440
found similar american procedures

1249
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:44,960
and then he had asked them some

1250
00:46:47,589 --> 00:46:46,240
questions about it and then found out

1251
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:47,599
that they ended up

1252
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:49,040
right after he'd asked questions they

1253
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:51,440
had scrubbed this chapter out of their

1254
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:53,040
procedural manual

1255
00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:55,440
so it seems like they don't exist any

1256
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:57,680
longer in the united states was which is

1257
00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:00,240
where they were initially created but

1258
00:47:03,829 --> 00:47:02,160
they are in use in canada and when they

1259
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:03,839
were first created it was because it was

1260
00:47:09,109 --> 00:47:06,480
the cold war you know they had they

1261
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:09,119
wanted to be able to have a mechanism so

1262
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:12,000
civilians could report potential threats

1263
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:15,040
you know if a air canada pilot saw a

1264
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:17,119
soviet worship in the arctic while you

1265
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:19,359
know flying out to europe or something

1266
00:47:23,349 --> 00:47:21,280
they wanted to have a specific procedure

1267
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:23,359
so those reports would get to the right

1268
00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:25,680
authorities and it just so happened at

1269
00:47:33,030 --> 00:47:28,480
the dawn of the cold war also coincided

1270
00:47:35,589 --> 00:47:33,040
with a explosion of ufo sightings and

1271
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:35,599
you know this reporting mechanism to

1272
00:47:40,549 --> 00:47:37,040
capture threats

1273
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:40,559
also very clearly captures unidentified

1274
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:42,480
flying objects i mean i think i have it

1275
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:44,000
right in front of me here's the current

1276
00:47:46,990 --> 00:47:45,440
let's see yeah

1277
00:47:50,549 --> 00:47:47,000
so this is a

1278
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:50,559
cl213 checklist 213.

1279
00:47:55,510 --> 00:47:52,559
this is the current uh service the

1280
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:55,520
cirvis this is the current procedures

1281
00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:56,400
for

1282
00:48:01,589 --> 00:47:58,720
the canada's norad headquarters in

1283
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:01,599
winnipeg and it very clearly says

1284
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:03,920
examples of events requiring service

1285
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:05,440
reports are i don't know if you can see

1286
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:08,160
what number one is

1287
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:11,680
five flying objects yeah um number two

1288
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:13,680
is submarines or warships which are not

1289
00:48:17,670 --> 00:48:16,160
or canadian american et cetera et cetera

1290
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:17,680
and it says the report you need to

1291
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:21,280
notify air traffic controllers um and

1292
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:25,119
you need to notify mr chris

1293
00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:26,720
rakowski i'm going to hide his email

1294
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:28,400
address but his name's right there air

1295
00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:30,800
force procedure

1296
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:33,359
so yes these procedures still exist they

1297
00:48:39,109 --> 00:48:37,200
were you know created 70 years ago the

1298
00:48:39,829 --> 00:48:39,119
wording of them has changed a little bit

1299
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:39,839
but

1300
00:48:44,069 --> 00:48:42,800
canada still has active procedures for

1301
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:44,079
documenting

1302
00:48:47,750 --> 00:48:46,160
credible ufo reports even though they

1303
00:48:49,829 --> 00:48:47,760
don't really do anything with them they

1304
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:49,839
do have procedures for documenting them

1305
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:52,240
and canada is relatively transparent

1306
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:54,160
about documenting them and then doing

1307
00:48:57,270 --> 00:48:55,440
nothing with them

1308
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:57,280
you know they tell you we we have these

1309
00:49:01,510 --> 00:48:58,960
procedures and then we don't do anything

1310
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:01,520
and my research says that's more or less

1311
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:04,160
true but some of the interesting cases

1312
00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:06,079
there's there's been evidence of them

1313
00:49:10,870 --> 00:49:08,960
you know looked into a little further

1314
00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:10,880
ones that have you know

1315
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:13,200
perhaps the air force themselves admit

1316
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:16,720
this ones that have any threat uh

1317
00:49:20,790 --> 00:49:18,480
potential for example that time they

1318
00:49:22,390 --> 00:49:20,800
detected something moving quickly by

1319
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:22,400
radar into north america and they

1320
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:24,960
launched jets so but there's just

1321
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:28,079
there's no yeah there's no ufo

1322
00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:29,119
office

1323
00:49:31,990 --> 00:49:30,720
you know they're just yet

1324
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:32,000
not yet

1325
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:34,160
do we want that though like do we want

1326
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:36,960
that it do we want it to be hidden you

1327
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:40,079
know behind the academic gatekeepers or

1328
00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:42,160
or have the military and government get

1329
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:44,720
their fingers in it i i don't know i'm

1330
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:47,280
just not the kind of person who trusts

1331
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:49,680
uh federal institutions to do things

1332
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:52,960
correctly i my my dream is is a

1333
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:55,440
situation where data gets made

1334
00:49:59,589 --> 00:49:57,040
publicly available for those who are

1335
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:59,599
interested i don't necessarily think

1336
00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:00,720
this is something the canadian

1337
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:02,720
government needs to get into i don't

1338
00:50:07,349 --> 00:50:05,440
think our goal should be a canadian ufo

1339
00:50:10,069 --> 00:50:07,359
office i think our goal should be

1340
00:50:11,829 --> 00:50:10,079
pushing our elected officials to be more

1341
00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:11,839
transparent about the data they have i

1342
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:13,680
think that's the best we can ask for it

1343
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:15,359
doesn't cost them that much money

1344
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:17,520
doesn't take that much effort and then

1345
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:19,040
those you know

1346
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:21,040
who were interested can can look into

1347
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:24,240
the matters but i don't i i'm just

1348
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:26,160
i don't trust our government and

1349
00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:28,079
military to

1350
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:30,079
do this in the transparent way that i

1351
00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:31,760
would like it to be done

1352
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:33,839
yeah and that's that's fair exactly i

1353
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:35,440
hear what you're saying you know i would

1354
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:37,520
like it to be open to open access so we

1355
00:50:41,349 --> 00:50:39,359
can learn more and ask more questions

1356
00:50:42,150 --> 00:50:41,359
and read the information and come to our

1357
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:42,160
own

1358
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,160
ideas and be able to research a little

1359
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:46,480
bit more civilians but the only thing i

1360
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:48,240
would say that when you're having a ufo

1361
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:50,319
office what if that information comes

1362
00:50:53,990 --> 00:50:51,599
forward and

1363
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:54,000
there are threats you know and there are

1364
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:55,359
things that

1365
00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:57,280
you know the canadian the average maybe

1366
00:51:01,910 --> 00:51:00,240
canadian shouldn't know because it go

1367
00:51:03,750 --> 00:51:01,920
you know we have to be protected you

1368
00:51:06,790 --> 00:51:03,760
know our there might be something that

1369
00:51:09,190 --> 00:51:06,800
we run into a situation where

1370
00:51:10,950 --> 00:51:09,200
there are threats that we can't put that

1371
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:10,960
information forward do you think that

1372
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:12,400
that might happen or is that just

1373
00:51:15,430 --> 00:51:13,760
something that you know we would

1374
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:15,440
instantly that would go classified in

1375
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:17,440
canada well i think that has happened

1376
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:19,280
you know my research

1377
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:22,319
i've pulled emails and reports that will

1378
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:25,119
just say like unknown detected and then

1379
00:51:30,309 --> 00:51:28,160
it's the whole thing is redacted like

1380
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:30,319
you know like you just see like the from

1381
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:31,200
to

1382
00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:33,599
and then you know maybe a date and then

1383
00:51:38,630 --> 00:51:36,640
all the materials redacted so there

1384
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:38,640
seems to be cases

1385
00:51:40,549 --> 00:51:39,760
that

1386
00:51:41,589 --> 00:51:40,559
do

1387
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:41,599
perhaps

1388
00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:42,960
border that

1389
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:45,520
military nexus where

1390
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:48,000
you know our air force does see it as a

1391
00:51:52,069 --> 00:51:49,040
concern

1392
00:51:53,349 --> 00:51:52,079
um i think those cases do pop up

1393
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:53,359
but

1394
00:51:57,589 --> 00:51:55,760
do we have any threat cases

1395
00:51:59,109 --> 00:51:57,599
because i don't actually know of any

1396
00:52:01,030 --> 00:51:59,119
myself like you know maybe they would

1397
00:52:03,910 --> 00:52:01,040
say that shake harbor and some of them

1398
00:52:05,589 --> 00:52:03,920
in the past were um

1399
00:52:08,309 --> 00:52:05,599
you know certain things have happened in

1400
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:08,319
the past that were pretty pretty intense

1401
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:10,640
that have been ufo cases but is there

1402
00:52:14,710 --> 00:52:12,400
anything recent that we know of that we

1403
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:14,720
would consider as a threat to like you

1404
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:16,240
know to canadians

1405
00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:18,720
uh it depends on your i mean depends on

1406
00:52:22,790 --> 00:52:20,720
your definition of threat

1407
00:52:24,950 --> 00:52:22,800
i mean there was like for example in a

1408
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:24,960
story i did in november you know it

1409
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:27,520
detailed uh air force documents that

1410
00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:30,160
outlined a case where f-18 fighter jets

1411
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:32,800
were you know scrambled to intercept

1412
00:52:36,710 --> 00:52:34,160
something that was being detected on

1413
00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:36,720
radar you know there's other cases in in

1414
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:39,119
the archives where norad's detecting

1415
00:52:44,069 --> 00:52:41,599
things on radar and you know telling

1416
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:44,079
radioing uh to civilian air traffic

1417
00:52:47,430 --> 00:52:45,520
controllers telling them to make sure

1418
00:52:48,309 --> 00:52:47,440
pilots who keep their eyes open

1419
00:52:49,990 --> 00:52:48,319
but

1420
00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:50,000
i think the most compelling threat

1421
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:53,760
narrative or threat angle i've heard is

1422
00:52:57,829 --> 00:52:55,520
you know at least from the american side

1423
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:57,839
i've heard people say well the reason we

1424
00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:59,520
need to investigate this from a defense

1425
00:53:02,790 --> 00:53:00,400
perspective

1426
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:02,800
is because if one of our you know an

1427
00:53:05,670 --> 00:53:04,960
enemy a so-called enemy nation were able

1428
00:53:07,829 --> 00:53:05,680
to

1429
00:53:09,430 --> 00:53:07,839
crack this advanced propulsion code it

1430
00:53:10,470 --> 00:53:09,440
would be detrimental to american

1431
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:10,480
interests

1432
00:53:16,150 --> 00:53:14,160
but like canada doesn't invest in

1433
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:16,160
military research and development like

1434
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:18,160
that you know what i mean we're we buy

1435
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:21,359
our weapons from america so

1436
00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:22,319
right

1437
00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:24,400
do we you know there's some obviously

1438
00:53:30,870 --> 00:53:28,720
there is a domestic uh military hardware

1439
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:30,880
um you know that people make

1440
00:53:34,630 --> 00:53:33,119
military vehicles and weapons in canada

1441
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:34,640
but like

1442
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:35,680
we're

1443
00:53:45,589 --> 00:53:43,750
it's just it's

1444
00:53:48,069 --> 00:53:45,599
it's a different game you know

1445
00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:48,079
so i i feel like perhaps that that could

1446
00:53:53,510 --> 00:53:50,000
hold true in the us but

1447
00:53:55,109 --> 00:53:53,520
not as as much here

1448
00:53:56,950 --> 00:53:55,119
no i hear what you're saying too i just

1449
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:56,960
find it interesting that the states

1450
00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:58,640
because we are sister in countries if

1451
00:54:02,710 --> 00:54:00,720
the states has a threat then i would

1452
00:54:06,710 --> 00:54:02,720
automatically that threat i would think

1453
00:54:10,630 --> 00:54:08,470
so the canadian military you know i

1454
00:54:13,109 --> 00:54:10,640
mentioned this cold war era procedure

1455
00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:13,119
they they collected cases there was an

1456
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:14,160
actual

1457
00:54:19,030 --> 00:54:16,880
active you know there was active ufo

1458
00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:19,040
research happening at an official level

1459
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:21,440
in canada from the cold war and they

1460
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:23,040
stopped collecting it was through the

1461
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:24,960
national the federal national research

1462
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:27,280
council of canada they receive reports

1463
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:29,839
from the rcmp the royal canadian mounted

1464
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:31,680
police they receive reports from the

1465
00:54:35,349 --> 00:54:33,359
department of defense

1466
00:54:37,030 --> 00:54:35,359
and it was an official thing that ended

1467
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:37,040
in 1995

1468
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:39,280
and in

1469
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:42,160
all of those years throughout the cold

1470
00:54:45,510 --> 00:54:43,280
war

1471
00:54:48,309 --> 00:54:45,520
there was never you know at least in my

1472
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:48,319
research i never encountered a case

1473
00:54:53,589 --> 00:54:50,400
where they said hey this is a clear

1474
00:54:55,750 --> 00:54:53,599
threat yes in in the records there are

1475
00:54:57,910 --> 00:54:55,760
cases of pilots seeing things pilots

1476
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:57,920
disappearing i guess those those could

1477
00:55:03,910 --> 00:55:00,559
be considered threat cases but

1478
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:03,920
it just i it's i see it as being a

1479
00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:06,880
really politically expedient argument to

1480
00:55:10,950 --> 00:55:09,040
get attention on the subject to get

1481
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:10,960
government interest to get money and i

1482
00:55:15,670 --> 00:55:13,440
see how it works in the american context

1483
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:15,680
but i just it's hard for me i don't see

1484
00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:17,760
how it applies to canada it's just we're

1485
00:55:21,510 --> 00:55:19,760
such a different country and you know

1486
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:21,520
our military interests are different

1487
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:24,000
than the us the u.s has a vested

1488
00:55:28,630 --> 00:55:25,839
military interest in maintaining

1489
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:28,640
superiority over its geopolitical rivals

1490
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:31,280
you know were china to crack some sort

1491
00:55:35,349 --> 00:55:33,040
of exotic propulsion system before

1492
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:35,359
america it would be a really

1493
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:37,680
you know big bad deal for the us

1494
00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:41,520
military but you know with canada it's

1495
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:44,079
i mean that's that's not us we're not

1496
00:55:48,549 --> 00:55:46,319
trying to make you know may be on the

1497
00:55:49,349 --> 00:55:48,559
cutting edge of developing weapons it's

1498
00:55:52,789 --> 00:55:49,359
not

1499
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:52,799
what our country you know invests in

1500
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:54,160
that's true i think that that's really

1501
00:55:58,549 --> 00:55:56,400
well said it's true and for people that

1502
00:56:00,150 --> 00:55:58,559
don't because to be honest like we don't

1503
00:56:02,549 --> 00:56:00,160
talk about it a lot and there's not tons

1504
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:02,559
of canadians in the you know ufo subject

1505
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:03,920
there's there are

1506
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:05,599
and they're all over there nationally

1507
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:07,680
all over canada but there's not a lot of

1508
00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:09,040
them so i think a lot of people have

1509
00:56:12,309 --> 00:56:10,640
questions or like hey what is canada

1510
00:56:13,990 --> 00:56:12,319
doing over there you know especially

1511
00:56:15,670 --> 00:56:14,000
currently um

1512
00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:15,680
so i think that was that was really well

1513
00:56:21,349 --> 00:56:18,640
said uh so before we wrap uh where can

1514
00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:21,359
we find you um social media instagram

1515
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:22,480
twitter

1516
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:28,079
can find me there at dsotis

1517
00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:30,480
um i post all my stories i have a

1518
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:35,280
personal website uh www.danielotus.ca

1519
00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:37,680
if you look at my vice contributor page

1520
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:39,920
uh just google danielo device it'll come

1521
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:43,359
up and all of my ufo related uh work is

1522
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:45,760
there you can also find me on facebook

1523
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:47,760
and the other things but uh

1524
00:56:51,670 --> 00:56:49,280
twitter is the place where i'm always

1525
00:56:53,270 --> 00:56:51,680
posting stuff so for example you know

1526
00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:53,280
let's say i write a story and i get some

1527
00:56:56,710 --> 00:56:55,440
extra documents after it's published

1528
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:56,720
twitter is the place where i'm usually

1529
00:57:00,230 --> 00:56:58,640
like posting that stuff for you know

1530
00:57:01,990 --> 00:57:00,240
those who are interested because i'm not

1531
00:57:04,470 --> 00:57:02,000
gonna write a whole new story if i got

1532
00:57:05,829 --> 00:57:04,480
you know two extra cool pages but

1533
00:57:08,069 --> 00:57:05,839
throw it out in the world so that's

1534
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:08,079
where you can find me and yeah thank you

1535
00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:09,359
so much for having me this was a lot of

1536
00:57:12,549 --> 00:57:10,640
fun thank you

1537
00:57:13,910 --> 00:57:12,559
awesome daniel and

1538
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:13,920
thank you and hopefully we'll see you

1539
00:57:55,370 --> 00:57:53,680
[Music]